Conversation with an anti-vaxxer…?

Elyce Powers

Cover comic: Source

This Facebook status called “Conversation with an anti-vaxxer” was recently brought up to us.  We were asked for our input, and we had plenty to offer. This is obviously a “gotcha”, “I’ve done my research” post. We found that very poor research had been done here, and it needed to be corrected. The original text is in BOLD RED.

Conversation with an anti-vaxxer

Q: So you’re an “anti-vaxxer“?
A: Yes, if you need to call me that.

Q: Don’t you worry about your child getting sick from vaccine preventable diseases?
A: No, not really. I actually have less fear of many of those illnesses now that I’ve done my research.

While some vaccine preventable diseases can be mild, there are still things to fear about them. There is not just death, there is suffering, there are lifelong complications. A perfectly healthy child can be harmed by a vaccine preventable disease. If you are going to choose not to vaccinate, please live in reality and respect what these diseases can do. You are not making a well-rounded choice if you ignore all the possibilities;

Whooping Cough: Pneumonia, convulsions, encephalitis, death.

Measles: Blindness, deafness, encephalitis, pnuemonia, death. Years later those who have had measles can suffer from 100% fatal Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis (SSPE)

Mumps:Deafness, encephalitis, infertility in men.

Chicken Pox: Pneumonia, Toxic Shock Syndrome, Bacterial Infections, Death.

Q: But what about polio?
A: Polio is asymptomatic in over 90% of cases. When symptoms do present, they’re usually mild and flu-like.
Up to 72% of cases are asymptomatic.
1% will get paralytic polio.
Before the vaccine 13,000-20,000 cases of paralytic polio were reported annually.

We’ve addressed other Polio Myths, here.

Q: But we don’t see iron lungs anymore because of vaccines.
A: We don’t see iron lungs anymore for the same reason we don’t see computers that are large enough to take up an entire room. Technology has come a long way.
True, we have ventilators now. Though the iron lung allowed individuals to not be intubated for long periods of time (the rest of their lives sometimes). These type of individuals are now given tracheotomies and portable ventilators.

Q: But even if the risk of getting something serious is small, don’t you want to protect your child with vaccines just in case?
A: I do want to protect my child, and that is one reason I say no to vaccines. Because in my cost-benefit analysis (what?), the chances of my child being harmed from vaccines is greater than the chances of my child being harmed from one of those illnesses.

Not true.

From RtAVM

We know serious adverse events from vaccines are extremely rare.

Measles alone has an encephalitis risk of 1 in 1,000, and death rate of 1 in 5,000, it can cause deafness, blindness, and even years later it carries a 1 in 25,000 chance of 100% fatal subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE).

Q: But it’s not just about your child. It is your responsibility to vaccinate your child to protect immune compromised people through herd immunity.
A: First and foremost, my responsibility is to my child. I will not set my child on fire to keep someone else warm. What parent would knowingly risk their child’s life for the sake of the herd? Would you? My child is not a human shield. Secondly, herd immunity is a myth. We do not have vaccine induced herd immunity and never have.

Vaccination is by far less risky for your child than acquiring natural infection. The analogy here is an example of false equivalency, and is extremely dramatic.

Herd immunity is not a myth, it is a well-demonstrated fact. 

Q: But don’t you think vaccines are a victim of their own success? They eradicated polio and other diseases, so you probably haven’t seen them thanks to vaccines.
A: Correlation does not equal causation. 

This person doesn’t understand what “correlation does not equal causation” means. You will see in the text that follows, that this person uses the argument that correlation does equal causation, when it comes to the rise in different health conditions. So they believe correlation equals causation, but only when they want it to.

The history of vaccines is more complex than that, and I no longer believe that vaccines can take the credit for eradicating any diseases.

If you believe the above statement you are committing to belief in a mass conspiracy, and your head is firmly in the sand. 

We have never had widespread vaccination for scarlet fever or typhoid yet, they are no longer a threat. 

Scarlet fever is a secondary infection to strep throat; we have antibiotics which prevent most cases now. Yes, sanitation is partially credited for the fall in Typhoid cases, but, there is a typhoid vaccine, Typhoid is still a threat around the world.

Amazing what sanitation can do. Polio has also not been eradicated. I may not have lived through the “polio” era, but I am living in a time with a different kind of epidemic. 

Do you know what is really amazing? In 1952, 58,000 new cases of polio were reported in the United States, and more than 3,000 died from the disease. In 1955 the polio vaccine was rolled out, in 1957 the United States only had 6,000 cases of polio. 

Do you know what else is really amazing? Polio has been eliminated from everywhere but Pakistan and Afghanistan. It has been eliminated from places that do not have modern sanitation practices.

We are so close to the eradication of polio, there was only 37 cases globally in 2016

My child’s generation is the first to have a life expectancy that is less than that of their parents. People are sicker than ever with autoimmune diseases, deadly allergies, neurological problems, and cancer (this is not related to vaccines. We can not cling to a controversial problem of the past to make crucial decisions for today. We have to do something about the problems we are currently faced with, and giving more vaccines is not an acceptable solution.

This has nothing to do with vaccines. 

From RtAVM

Q: Do the ingredients in vaccines concern you?
A: Yes
The ingredients  should not scare you. They are all in safe amounts, remember, the dose makes the poison. 

Q: You know there’s formaldehyde in pears, right? And mercury in tuna?
A: When’s the last time you puréed a pear and some tuna, then injected it intramuscularly? We have a digestive system for a reason, and the mucosal tissue is one of the most important components of the human immune system. I don’t think bypassing those functions is without consequence. Ingestion and injection are not the same thing. It’s the same reason you can drink snake venom, but being bitten in the leg with the same venom can kill you. 

Ingestion and injection are not that different.

Venoms and poisons are not the same thing. It’s still not a great idea to drink venom…

Q: But the science is settled and doctors and scientists agree that vaccines are necessary.
A: Science is never settled. As history has shown, science can be dangerously wrong.  It can also be heavily influenced by financial interests. And doctors and scientists do not all agree about vaccines.

If you jump off a building, will you fall or fly? Seems like the science on gravity is settled.

“Once science has been established, once a scientific truth emerges from a consensus of experiments and observations, it is the way of the world. What I’m saying is, when different experiments give you the same result, it is no longer subject to your opinion.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson

Are vaccines safe? 

It is true there are dishonest people out there.

Andrew Wakefield was paid $500,000 to produce the results he did in his infamous MMR- Autism Study. He also holds a patent for a single dose measles vaccine he claimed is safer. 

There are many doctors, nurses, immunologists and researchers who are aware of the shortcomings of vaccines. And if we want to really discuss vaccine science, we need to demand that there be more of it, because vaccine science is severely lacking. 

The same anti-vaccine doctors are continuously cited; some are no longer licensed to practice, many have financial interests in being anti-vaccine, most have online stores where they sell supplements and books. There is one lady who has a Ph.D in immunology and is anti-vaccine, one. I’m not sure what qualifies as a researcher? There’s that one guy who communicates with aliens, and his buddy the computer scientist, is an AIDS denialist.

The science behind vaccines is not lacking. Each vaccine is extensively studied for safety and efficacy.

It is the tobacco science of our time.

Those were advertisements, not science.

The current vaccine schedule (which has more than tripled since vaccine manufacturers became protected from liability)  has never been tested for safety. There hasn’t been a randomized double blind placebo controlled study comparing the outcomes of the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Vaccines are the epitome of quackery .

The one study this lady wants doesn’t exist for a variety of reasons.

Why do anti-vaxxers hate the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP)? 

How to spot a quack.

I leave you with this; the root word of “ignorance” is “ignore.”

It is a terrible idea to ignore facts and reality when making decisions. 



Toxicity: The Dose Makes The Poison

Elyce Powers


On the left you can see a meme from the Natural News, it’s meant to fear monger; it’s meant to scare you off of taking medications you may need to have a good quality of life, or even survive. In reality, it’s true, yes I agree with the natural news (probably the only time you will see that from me), but not in the way they want me to agree. This meme isn’t scary to me, I agree that you should not take more than the dose that is directed by your health care provider. On the right I have created a meme in the same style. It’s not so scary when you swap out “medicine” for “water”, you see, it’s the dose that makes the poison. Even drinking too much water can kill you. The same is true for vaccine ingredients, and every single other chemical in existence.

“All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison…”




From: Compound Interest

Everything is made of chemicals!



Your body recognizes these chemicals the same, whether they are man made or naturally occurring!


(From RtAVM)

There is very little difference in how the body handles these chemicals, whether they are ingested or injected. 

More Reading:

Cornell University: Toxicity

Science Based Medicine: Toxic Myths About Vaccines

Skeptical Raptor: Simple Math: The Dose Makes The Poison

CHOP: Vaccine Ingredients

Vaxplanations: Injection vs. Injection



Vaxxed: Tall Tales From The Road, Army Edition

Elyce Powers

I am a US Army Veteran; I spent all of my four years in the Army with the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) out of Fort Campbell, KY.  I deployed to Iraq in October 2007, for over a year in support of the 2d Brigade Combat Team (502d Infantry Regiment). The military has been a part of my life for the last ten years, as I am also married to a man with a far more impressive military resume than myself.

Right now the team behind the “Vaxxed” film is traveling around the country, filming anecdotal stories to further perpetuate a fear of vaccines. Recently I came across a video featuring former “Army Medic” Sherrie Saunders, and her story about the Anthrax Vaccine. With my background and knowledge on this subject, I was instantly alerted to a number of blatant lies streaming across my screen. Of course some of these claims may sound impressive to someone with little to no knowledge of the Army/Military, but I can see past this senseless rouse.

This is what I took away from this video.

Saunders states that she was an Army Medic with 75th Combat Support Hospital, which is an Army Reserve Unit partially based in Tuscaloosa, AL. This means that Saunders was a reservist; essentially she was committed to serve one weekend a month, and two weeks out of every year for annual training.  I did some digging and Saunders’ Facebook profile (which was linked with the video) lists her high school graduation year as 1992. The Gulf War ended in early 1991. Saunders, a reservist from ’92 on had nothing to do with the Gulf War.

Combat Support Hospitals (CSH, pronounced cash) in the field are for emergency medical care, triage, and getting the sick and injured stable for transport to a better facility. The 75th CSH is not a place, rather it is a unit. This reservist CSH is spread far and wide around the United States, they only join together during annual training (two weeks a year) or in the instance that they become activated. Army Medics are first responders, they are not nurses or doctors, it is the Army medic’s job to get the injured to the hands of someone better qualified to save their life. A CSH is not the place where hospice care would be provided, especially a reserve CSH which isn’t a 24/7/365 operation. Realistically, whichever sub unit of the 75th CSH that Saunders was a part of certainly operated out of an Aid Station, which is essentially a small triage room. Additionally there is a full service Veteran’s Affairs (VA) hospital in Birmingham; dying veterans are also allotted civilian hospice care near their home of record (this is what we opted for while my dad was dying). Knowing all of this I can conclude that Saunders story of caring for a dying Soldier with the 75th CSH is a total farce.

Saunders blames the Anthrax vaccine for Gulf War Syndrome. I am infuriated whenever I hear this claim, It devalues and totally ignores what Gulf War Veterans experienced.  While it is true that Gulf War Veterans did receive the Anthrax vaccine, they are casualties of war, not vaccines. Gulf War Veterans were also exposed to a number of airborne pollutants; burning human waste, trash, dust and exhaust. I only had a desk job, yet still left Iraq with a souvenir of titanium in my lungs, forever.

There are other ailments that have been found to afflict Gulf War Veteran’s at higher rates as well, including Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Extensive research on Gulf War Veterans can be found, HERE.  

Saunders’ claim that this “dying Soldier” had Gulf War Syndrome, even though he did not deploy, is totally bogus too. It’s called Gulf War Syndrome because it only afflicts veterans of the Gulf War, as in people who actually had their boots on the ground.    

There is no known link between the Anthrax vaccine and Gulf War Syndrome. As a veteran of the Iraq War I have personally received a total of six Anthrax vaccines, I know this because I looked at my records. In the video Polly Tommey claims that Soldiers were injected with unknown vaccines, there is a website called MEDPROS where these Soldiers can view their vaccination records. Vaccinations are a requirement to deploy, the Army keeps very good records of the vaccines Soldiers receive in order to keep them in a deployable status. Furthermore, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has to provide care and disability payments for all veterans damaged by their service. Why would the military intentionally make service members ill? This claim doesn’t make any sense, they still have to pay sick Soldiers.

I highly doubt that Saunders ever received, or even administered a single Anthrax vaccine in her time as an Army Reserve Medic.

Saunders claims that the Anthrax vaccine was created and distributed by Blackwater (Security Company), which is “owned by Dick Cheney.” I think that she used “Blackwater” because this company’s name is familiar to many with their dark past; it makes for a good conspiracy theory. This company isn’t owned by Dick Cheney, and it wasn’t founded until 1997.  Essentially Saunders wants us to believe that a security company, which wasn’t even founded yet, has something to do with vaccines, for some nefarious reason. Why would a (not yet founded) private security company give a random Alabama Army reserve unit the Anthrax Vaccine? Especially when that unit is not involved in anything requiring the anthrax vaccine? As Saunders said, this is about money; so why would the Army waste money on vaccinating reserve Soldiers for something they are not at risk for? They wouldn’t! I highly doubt that Saunders ever received, or even administered a single Anthrax vaccine in her time as an Army Reserve Medic.

Saunders claims that allergies to vaccines do not matter in the military, because “you are government property and everybody gets that vaccine.” This makes no sense, why would the government give their own “property” anaphylaxis? The Army has medical exemptions for this very reason. I did not receive the small pox vaccine because I reported having childhood eczema, a contraindication for this vaccine.

Saunders claims Soldiers are used by our nation for defense and protection; followed by saying that Soldiers are kept sick by vaccines to save the government money. This makes no sense at all. Why would you intentionally weaken your defense? Again, they still have to pay sick Soldiers, Soldiers are salaried employees.

Saunders claims Soldiers who make it 20 years get a pension and medical benefits, this is true. She then claims that a Soldier who dies ten years after joining saves the government “all kinds of money.” She must not know that there are survivors benefits paid to eligible surviving family members. Furthermore she must not be aware of the $500,000 life insurance policy every active duty Soldier has on them.

Saunders claims, “they want to get rid of people they trained, because we go into countries and we do things and see things…

Saunders claims that she pretended to be pregnant for four months before she was discharged so she didn’t have to get the Anthrax vaccine. The vaccine wouldn’t be given to someone who wasn’t deploying, let alone not even staying in reserve service.

Saunders claims that she got out of the Army (reserves) in 1997, at which point men in dark suits told her to keep her mouth shut. (They must have been from the newly formed “Blackwater”, in their blacked out SUVs…) Saunders claims her unit “got bested by Washington in their dark suits.”

Saunders, the unequivocal  hero of this story, was just trying to take the blood pressure of a (non-existent) dying boy… She should have just listened to that boy’s (totally real) grandma…

Polly claims that she talked to a Soldier who was 37 weeks pregnant, the Army was trying to vaccinate her with “everything they could!” Saunders agrees, she says pregnancy doesn’t matter, you will be given, all the vaccines. Wait a second; didn’t she pretend to be pregnant so she wouldn’t have to be vaccinated? Realistically that pregnant Soldier was probably offered a flu shot and TDaP according to CDC recommendation. The Army isn’t going to disregard contraindications on the vaccine insert. I served in the Army up until I was around 30 weeks pregnant with my first son in 2010, I was asked if I wanted a flu shot and I opted to get one. That was it.

Polly then talks about something reminiscent of the Edgewood Experiments (1955-75), like they are currently happening. Saunders then goes back to “Blackwater” and the vaccines, and some (non-existent) book she read. She talks about joining the military to be a hero (one weekend a month, two weeks a year), but she killed people with vaccines instead, that manufactured guilt must be unimaginable.

The video ends with hugs, lots of blinking, and a few tears; in addition to Saunders writing “Unknown (not real) Soldier” on the Vaxxed tour bus. 

What you need to take away from this.

These videos appeal to emotion, not logic.

If you watch these “Vaxxed” videos, watch them with a skeptical mind, they are meant to appeal to emotion, not logic. It would surprise me if you found a single one that is medically verified to be vaccine related. Vaccines do not cause Autism, or Gulf War Syndrome. Sherrie Saunders is far from a hero, rather she is the opposite. Her tall tales feed a fear that leads scared parents away from protecting their children. Her actions in this video are despicable.

If you would like to hear about a real hero medic, please refer to the story of my fallen comrade, Jessica

Updated 01/09/2017 to further support my statements above: 

The Clinton Administration announced the Anthrax Vaccination Program in late 1997. 

“Concerned about the possibility of germ warfare at home and overseas, the Pentagon has ordered that all 1.4 million active duty men and women in the U.S. military be vaccinated against anthrax.”

Furthermore, a later update stated:

“William S. Cohen, the secretary of defense, announced in late 1997 that all 2.4 million active and reserve military personnel would be vaccinated against the disease by 2003.

But in July, Mr. Cohen limited vaccinations to those most at risk to attack, in South Korea and the Middle East, because much of the nation’s vaccine stockpile was found to have lost its potency.

Now the military will vaccinate only personnel in the Persian Gulf region because of continuing production delays at the nation’s sole licensed plant for the vaccine.”

Tragic Deaths Used To Promote Vaccine Fear

Elyce Powers


When you see the headline; “Tainted Measles Vaccine Kills More than 50 Syrian Children” you are faced with an unimaginable tragedy. No one can argue against the tragic untimely deaths of children. Syrian children did die, and their deaths are being used to further the notion that vaccines are not safe. In reality a vaccine did not cause the deaths of these children, human error did. This is a prime example of half-truths being told, and media reports being spun to support a view against vaccination.

The Timeline of Events

In early reports on September 16, 2004 (HERE) it was believed the vaccines were either expired or otherwise spoiled. Had this been the case, it would only highlight why preservatives used in vaccines are very necessary. In addition to why Jenny McCarthy’s “green our vaccines” battle cry could be potentially deadly to our children.

In later reports on September 24, 2004 the WHO made a statement regarding the initial findings of their investigation.

A spokesman for the WHO, the public health arm of the United Nations, said a preliminary investigation suggests the deaths can be attributed not to a criminal act but simple human error.

The WHO spokesman, Christian Lindmeier, said early reports suggest medics may have accidentally mixed a high-dose muscle relaxant into the vaccine powder instead of the designated serum.

“Apparently, in the same fridge … where the vaccines were stored, there was also a muscle relaxant,” Lindmeier explained Thursday to CNN, adding the vaccine itself likely wasn’t contaminated. “The muscle relaxant vial looks like the same vial as the vaccine.”

The WHO has done great things in Syria; they provide other vaccines, much needed vitamins, and health care to children. Health care workers risk their lives for these people, and are a huge target of the war.

Unfortunately the 15 to 34 Syrian children killed by human error is mentioned far more, than the 1.5 million doses  of life saving MMR provided to Syria. Additionally I’ve noticed headlines regarding this feed vaccine fears and hesitancy, with words like “tainted” and “contaminated”. Apparently “human error” doesn’t make an exciting headline when vaccines are in the media.

I personally know the tragic toll of human error. In February I lost my father, just days after his 57th birthday. He was a Cold War Era Army Veteran, and was awarded benefits for care from the VA due to potentially getting Hepatitis C from the administering of a vaccine. Hepatitis C related Cirrhosis of the liver is what eventually took him from us, after a horrific and long battle with the disease. The Army has used air jet guns in the past to administer vaccines, and has admitted it is feasible that disease was spread this way. It is plausible that one of these dirty guns transmitted Hepatitis C to my late father.

Could what happened in Syria happen to our children? It would be impossible. A primary care pediatrician has no need to have injectable muscle relaxant on hand. As first world citizens we are fortunate that our kids won’t ever receive vaccines in a dirty tent, in the same place where war wounded are treated.

Now that you know the reality of what happened. Give it a side by side with this article from the “Collective Evolution”. With an unbiased mind please acknowledge the unwarranted fear spread by sites like this one.

Additional reading
More on Collective Evolution, HERE.
 THIS is a great article about the Natural News.